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302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

Last post 03-05-2013, 7:52 PM by 93Reborn. 6 replies.
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  •  01-12-2010, 12:27 AM 2290

    302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

    My 1967 Mustang has a new crate motor 331 stroker short block that the manufacturer says was built from a mid to late 1980's 302 HO.  It won't start due to what is apparently a timing problem. 

    I realize that this motor had a different timing order than my original motor.  However, I didn't think this was an issue until possibly now.

    My cam is an Edelbrock performer plus that is for the early timing order.  I didn't degree my cam (bad mistake). My distributor is an Accel and I've verified 10 times that spark plug wires and distributor position are correct. 

    My records show my Comp Cams timing chain is for the 302 HO motor. Could that be causing my problems??  I'm getting 180 psi compression on # 1.  Any help would be appreciated.    

     

      

  •  01-13-2010, 9:24 PM 2291 in reply to 2290

    Re: 302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

    you say it wont start. just what is motor doing, poping back thru carb.? dragging when trying to crank etc.

    the cam card should give you the fireing order. im thinking that cam is the old fireing order but cant remember for sure. the chain wont make any difference. what about valve adjustment.? check that.to tight maybe.recheck the wires  i know for 11th time but  still could be one off or perhaps dizzy off. but if you have checked wires and dizzy like ya said  i would check valve adjustment again. hope ive been some help and ya get it figured out

    one more thing how did u install the chain. straight up or advanced or retard? may be ur problem there.

  •  01-19-2010, 11:34 AM 2322 in reply to 2290

    Re: 302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

    Walter the firing order must match the camshaft. All other parts (crank, heads, intake, etc) are interchangeable.

    The timing set (gears and chain) should be the same parts but you can verify the setup and check your firing order/camshaft agreement at the same time. Remove the plugs and the valve covers then set your engine at tdc on # 1 ready to fire. Use a socket to roll the crankshaft till the rotor button points at the next cylinder in the order and check that both valves are closed on that cylinder. It should check out thru the complete firing order. If it checks out then, at least, this should lead you closer to the trouble.

    I hope you'll post back when you find the problem.

  •  01-30-2010, 3:17 AM 2350 in reply to 2290

    Re: 302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

    Thank you all for all your help.  Although I haven't got the thing to run yet, it was really trying before I pulled the timing cover for the third time. It was really firing but just wouldn't start.  Some burping through new Edelbrock carb. 

     Still don't know  the exact problem, although suspect it is one of many, which surprises me because this is my fourth build of a 289/302/331 and all the previous ones started right up.  Lessons learned so far:

     Unlike Chevy first generation small blocks, , there are subtle differences between a Ford  68 302 and a 86 302.  Cam dowel pin is one.  The earlier cam dowel won't fit through the thicker cam gear and the eccentric.  I had to fabricate a short roll pin, apparently there are two types of fuel pump eccentrics used on Fords. Why use a cam dowel??? Isn't three bolts a better engineering solution?

    Sorry guys, Chevy's got us beat on this. As a professional engineer, I don't know why you would not just put the eccentric  on the cam instead of creating more confustion.   My 67 timing chain cover wouldn't clear the one-piece eccentric. All kinds of metal shavings got into my brand new $ 5K engine and I didn't even know  it.  Why the hell can't Ford and Comp cams get their act together?  I spent two hours grinding down my eccentric to get it to clear and be perfectly the same thickness as measured by a micrometer.   Another weakness of Ford is the legendary oil pump drive that trashed my excellent hand built 289.  Althogh i supposedly got a hardened piece from Summit then, it failed;  this time I got an ARP and looking at it, i have no assurances it won't fail. 

    Finally, I don't care how good they look, don't get fabricated tall aluminum valve covers if you have long tube headers and you've retained your shock towers. I might have well have put in a 351 stroker as hard as it is to get to everythng.

    Now to my faults:  1.  Always degree a cam.  I installed mine 4 degrees advanced because it was a little bigger than I probaby needed.  Have no idea what effect this may have, but we'll see.  2.  Ensure the Edelbrock lifters are soaked or pumped before adjusting valves.  I think some were too tight and remaining open, although I did get 30 psi priming my oil pump before my final adjustment. 

    If I sound bitter, I'm just pissed because I've put 150,000 miles on this car and now its been down for over a year.  God I love my Mustang and I will be so happy when it runs.  I work so hard at my regular job however, I just can't afford this nonsense even if it is my fault.  I'm an engineer and I realize the need to make things idiotproof.  Guess they didn't stress that 40  years ago.  

     

  •  01-30-2010, 11:01 PM 2353 in reply to 2350

    Re: 302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

    Walt,

    How're things going?

  •  02-28-2012, 8:46 PM 3153 in reply to 2353

    Re: 302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

    i have the same kind of issue with my dads 302 HO. it started and ran one day but would not the next. we did replace the old dist. with the HEI and it ran fine untill the other day. i have tried everything i know to and it still wont start. does anyone have any suggestions that i could try?
  •  03-05-2012, 7:52 PM 3160 in reply to 3153

    Re: 302 HO Timing issues/firing order/won't start

    Seth2002:
    i have the same kind of issue with my dads 302 HO. it started and ran one day but would not the next. we did replace the old dist. with the HEI and it ran fine untill the other day. i have tried everything i know to and it still wont start. does anyone have any suggestions that i could try?

     

    As goes with other forum rules from other sites I would assume starting your own thread for a new question...since it isn't your thread originally....

    First problem is you are trying to fix a Ford with Chevy technology lol..... look up the sbf.com website and go through the EFI no start procedures from Joel5.0 and find your problem

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