Ford Windsor Forums

Why do people bore and stroke 302 blocks for more cubic inches? Wouldn’t you be further ahead of the game if you start with a 351 block? The outer block dimensions are pretty close as far as fit goes. Is the bore and stroke capable of higher RPM maybe? I have nothing against 302’s, just wondering why…       

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Dave

These are some of the reasons I like stroker motors.

 Can you tell the difference between a 302 based 347 and a 302 HO just by looking at it under the hood. I can't.

People do stroke 351's also. Coast Hiperformance (sp?) out in Cali offers a 427 Windsor based on the 351.

There is an old adage that goes "There is no replacement for displacement". Now we can have our big inch motors in a smaller package. Turbo chargers and super chargers can make up the difference right until you come across someone who has done the same thing to a higher displacement motor. Then there's also the bench racing, personaly I like the sleeper angle.

 

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1stgencat
67 Standard Cougar
Restomod in work

Yeah your right about the sleeper effect. The sound usually gives me away though. I couldn’t tell you how many times I pulled in a gas station (At 9 MPG I do that a lot) and someone walks over to my sleepy old 302 powered Fairmont and asks “what the hell do you got in that thing”? I built a 302 because it’s what I happened to have the most parts for, the blocks are so close though I could of just as easily used a 351. I just thought there may be some kind of weight or power advantage using a 302. You can make a car go as fast as you want it all depends on how deep your pockets are.

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Dave

Sounds like yours might be more radical than a mere increase in cubes? Please, elaborate.

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1stgencat
67 Standard Cougar
Restomod in work

The car was my daily driver until gas prices shot up, now I just take it out when I need it, if I baby the hell out of it I can get around 11 MPG. I was doing a lot of towing on the interstate so I built it with durability in mind along with power. It originally had an in line 6 in it. Since a Fairmont is based on a fox chassis, Mustang parts bolted right on, I used later model 5.0 factory headers and an H pipe. It has a nice throaty, lumpy idle but I kept the cam mild enough to use stock springs, flat hydraulic lifters and stock torque converter. I ported and polished the heads and for the cam I kept the lift higher and duration and little longer on the exhaust side since I used the small valve heads (I think they were 1.94 intakes and 1.5 exhaust? I put this thing together a long time ago…). I had the heads milled down as far as I could without having to start cutting the intake and got the compression up to 9 to 1. I used a Comp Cams XE256H incase you know anybody else looking the kind of setup that you don’t have to buy a lot of aftermarket parts for. It has tons of midrange torque and I’ve been driving it over 10 years now with no major problems. I have an AOD I’m putting an AODW planetary gear setup in that’s going in it soon, hopefully it will make economical enough to put back on the road again.

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Dave

Little cam, little valves, stock torque convertor.  and only 11 mpg?.Guess you must have 4.56 rear end..or your definition of "babying the hell out of it" is  lot different from mine. 

 

 I routinely got average of 14 mpg with 67 mustang, 289, Roush heads, comp cam 218/218 at 0.050 and holley and edelbrock on top end with a C4 with 3.50 gears. I get upset everytime I think about all the work and money I spent rebuilding my C4 when I should have done like you and put in an AOD, but unfortunately, I bought my headers  and exhause  before making that decision and an AOD just wouldn't fit. 

Why stroke a 302?

All the internal parts/rotating mass of the 302 are lighter.  Put a 302/347 up against a 351 with similar parts (cam, heads,....) and the 347 will rev quicker & make it to the end of the track faster every day.

No reason not to stroke either one IMO if you are gonna do a full rebuild anyway, why not spend a few extra $$$ and get the most out of it?

The aerodynamics of a brick, the extra weight of a 4 door sedan has a lot to do with my mileage (3400# before I reinforced and installed a hitch). I wanted to run good at interstate speeds with 1500# behind me without having to push the car to hard. It does just what I wanted it to. The tricky part was to use most of the parts I already had to keep costs down. I just had a AOD and an AODW given to me, I think the modified AOD will put me in a daily driver again. I tried a 355 gear ratio when I first built the car but with durability in mind at interstate speeds I had to go back to the original 273, that turns it at 2700 RPM at 75 MPH. A sweet spot for my setup but not for the fuel gauge.    

Walter, it sounds like you have a good combination, an AOD would have been nice depending on what you do with the car. It might be possible to shoehorn in, you could see how these guy’s did it on a 67’ if you like. http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/33598/index.html After you get your moneys worth out of the C4 of course.      

Thanks 68Vert, now I get it.

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Dave

The person you thanked really doesn't give you the whole story.   Yes, compenents are lighter in a stroked small block but fundmental engine basiics like rod length are not mentioned.   A well built original 390 ford will kick ass over  a 390 +- based on a 351, anyday.  And a 390 is not a great engine. But  I had one, and if properly equipped, it could be almost as potent as its brother, the 429 or 460.  Remember, teh 390 is what served as Steve McQuesn motor in the Builitt  car that has been remarkaably publiciized and copied. I know, I had one.Bottom line, strokers are better in almost any formr, but don't let anybody, even popular magazines, even if they try,  tell youthat an equal displacment from a small block is equivalent to the same from a big block.

 

 

the original poster asked about stroking a 302 vs starting with a 351...

To compare a 390 FE motor to a stroked 351 lends itself to way too many possibilities.  I know for sure that a well built stroked 351  - 392, 408, 418, yes even a factory block 351W can be stroked up to 427 ci - coupled with a good set of aftermarket heads & cam will keep up with any well built 390, and for a lot less $$.  how fast you wanna go?  how much money do you wanna spend?  But now we're hijackin someone elses thread.

 You're correct.  The only point I was trying to make is a cube in one motor is not equivalent to a cube in another motor.  But your point - I think - is that an extra cube in the same family of motor is almost always an advantage, which it is.    

And I should know better, as I've just built a 331. It will likely make a lot more power than my 289, that died beacuause of a "performance" distribrutor/oil pump shaft that sheared off.  This time i'm using ARP but the diameter is so small (one of the horrible design features of a small block ford) that I don't even know if the ARP will hold up. 

I just hope I didn't overcam it, I used an Edelbrock RPM cam, which has a little more duration (224/234 at 0.50) than most cams that are routinely used in 331 and 347 to make 400 HP.  Remember, for a street car, better to err on the side of less cam.